And to think that Willow Creek notables have been hanging out with him! The term sometimes used is secure email. I was contemplating a megachurch model the other day where teaching pastors had term limits or rotating speakers. That is not old school. It took a long time for her to get past that. I do not believe we can judge what is in the heart of people. Only much later did I recall, for instance, my pastor condemning those gossip bloggers who were trying to tear down the church which is how I first found this blog. I know. @ dee: after the perps death before she told anyone. Ive been to Ephesus and it is just a tourist destination. I worked as a psychotherapist with both perpetrators and victims of sexual boundary violations for 20 years. I think Bill Hybels is an intelligent man. On our travels last summer one of the high points for my husband was to attend Willow Creek Church. Enough has been said about BH for him to be disqualified in my book, and given how Williow Creek model was push on much of christainity, we are all well within the commands of the NT to exhibit judgement and wisdom if want, we can start playing the verse naming game if you wish. Bill Hybels confessed a few years ago that WC had made a mistake by not encouraging church members to read their Bibles and mature spiritually. People are saved to church. There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. That isnt good for anyone. That was Pauls charge to Timothy. Things are starting to get ugly. @ okrapod: Good Lord! Hybels led many. tax. Shaping a church this way is an abomination, puts Hybels in very dangerous territory. We could apply those words to the most recent statement by Mr Hybels. The new letter to John Ortberg is a farce and anyone who has been a victim advocate is aware of it. If someone thinks so, tell me how. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Listen to yourself, Brad! Tysvm Dee. Its a thing now. This is exactly what I had in mind!? Hybels fell for him when he was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church, in Grand Rapids. If that were odd then I would change, but like I said that is just how we do. He is politically liberal, decrying sexism, racism, and the fear of people who are different, and is a vocal critic of Donald Trump. His wife had died rapidly of inflammatory breast cancer and we were at the funeral home for visitation. But if true it is still not honorable behavior. I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. Nothing can really tear down the church, as I think it was Law Prof that said, but people can get pretty mad when their fantasy of church and the people that promote that fantasy are shown to be very imperfect. You know, Bill Hybels for two decades or more promoted himself as the one with a system that would revolutionize the church and make it relevant. While WW can be messy, I think most poster here just want honesty, transparacy, and protection/respect of the weaker ones. #metoo. What if the Elders had sent Hybels home on a sabbatical while they allowed for a truly independent investigation 5 years ago? Once, while Mr. Hybels's wife, Lynne, and their children were away, the pastor took Ms. Baranowski out for dinner. Lydia, many have long suggested such things, but are officially scoffed at and rejected as conspiracists. I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. It comes out. If what he related is true (and I doubt it) there were bold ways to handle that to ensure a big message was sent and would have served EVERYONE better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0EtdtPi8w. @ Barbara Roberts: Weve seen all kinds of abuses from ministry leaders and time always reveals the truth. William Hybels (born December 12, 1951) is an American church figure and author. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: Sigh. But worse. I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. Together, they have two children, a son by the name of Todd Hybels and a daughter Shauna Niequist. not even then 4 years.?? Lets put all our conjecture up about the retracted affair as well. . @ Forrest: Joss Whedon Is a Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals, according to his ex-wife Kai Cole in her guest post on *The Wrap*. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. Your comment covers a lot of ground I am all too familiar with. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. Good night!!! I wonder if churches have convinced themselves of the same. Open Discussion Page. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. The people there sold out to it will protect it at all costs. Number of accusations (so far) This is centralized and IT probably has a means if necessary of reading the email (though it probably requires fairly high level authorization). Its all God this, God that, God God God. Your man-made system may not have won, but the winner here may be the truth, you know. I dont think he deserved that. I bought pants, shirts, belts and sweaters and you picked what you wanted and paid me for those items. Dr George Simon Jr a clinical psychologist and writes about character disorder, manipulative personalities and malignant narcissism. How is that not normal? I cant help but see your point here. They have much easier prey in a church setting, as the sheep expect the shepherds to be godly, trustworthy and above such things as looking to get laid. . The beast must be fed. Sitting there talking is not the problem. Interesting, as it goes after comments (he said bad words) and some situations, offering a perspective, all engineered to shape the perspective regarding Hybels. Time will tell whether WC was following Christ or Hybels. By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. She uses grooming quite cleverly. Willow Creek does not need a *incredible* leader. This is just how we do; I dont know. Kudos to these two publishers. People will walk away from Jesus Christ because Billy Hybels is not who they thought he was? Jesus was a grand act to follow, and the disciples did it right. plus Ive read very wise authors like: Don Hennessy an relationship counselor in Ireland who has worked for decades in the field of domestic abuse. Christianity is so intertwined with our society as the religion that the majority, if they dont believe, at least pay lip service to. https://futuristguymedia.wordpress.com/pyramid-of-abuse-and-culpability-complicity/. And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. Bye! They have changed so many lives for the good. Serving whom? Its YOUR money they use. He missed an important element in his effort at damage control: Preach it straight from the beginning. Email a description of the experience to yourself right away while details are fresh. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? Thats why its not overblown to discuss patterns of behavior over a 40 year period from different sources about a pastor who spent his career begging us all to look at me! why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? So, does that mean the alleged improprieties, at least for them, are not #Metoo worthy offenses? I know. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. Well, to show you how prophetic I am, I predicted years ago that most mega churches would be car lots or community centers by now. .just a minor point of information. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. So thats why I was interested in this concept. The couple was hitched in 1974. It was not well written It was a farce and all those behind it need to get a reality check. What they are doing is exactly what someone who has been there would expect them to do. Fascinating. Pew sitters paid for these seminars.. Willow Creek has run many many seminars teaching other churches how to impliment the Williow Creek model. He would be better for a while, and then get physical again. However, for people like those profiled on this site who have fallen short in protecting those under their charge (say, by covering ups their own misdeeds and/or crimes or those of others) to reemerge in a place where they again wish to wield spiritual authority (by starting another ministry (sic) in which they assume spiritual leadership or selling books advising sheep on spiritual matters seeking funding from said sheep in each case) is massively troubling. But, years of playing the great man on stage can be a very powerful armor. when Bill Hybels prayed for/about something no matter what it was, that according to Hybels God always answered him immediately or within days, Indeed, the Lords hand is not too short to save, and His ear is not too deaf to hear. The video is on YouTube: The Body does not put its faith in humans, even celebrity ones. @ dee: I truly hope that WCC reexamines who they are. Right. And us adults have to learn not to be so easily snookered by evil experts masquerading as wonderful people and pass red flags along to children. Weve both been busy with writing projects and many other things. Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. Rudyard Kipling, The Picts Song (about guerilla warfare), Ok. Ok. So much! @ Davis and Natasha: Then the man of God acts as if nothing happened.. Give me the bellicose jerks any time. Amen! I saw this in mega churches and just about every secular organization I was in. (The servants name was Malchus. Theres been so much of this lately that I think (hope!) According to another account, Hybels allegedly engaged in oral sex with his former assistant. Does this have any bearing on whether or not Bill Hybels was a sociopath, an abuser, a phony, a hypocrite, a philanderer? Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. I also think if its true, it minimizes his and his wifes ability to legitimately point the finger at others, and the impact of their words, and that is very unfortunate. The gospel includes that in spite of what happened God is willing to forgive and restore the sinner in relationship to God. Bill and Lynne Hybels draw on their own personal experience and a guiding faith to offer practical advice on how to enjoy a lifetime of togetherness -- from finding a suitable mate and dealing with the most common marital problems to avoiding the pitfalls that can sabotage a healthy relationship. I do. It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? To choose to continue to take a medication in spite of those side effects, when there are so many other sleep aids available, makes no sense. I double dog dare every Creeker to demand to see a detailed budget. I wonder if you would say the same thing about a small church in rural Indiana or is it only the big churches that are the most important? I agree!! (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). _____________________________________. As Bill Hybels learned, there's far more to romantic love than meets the eye. If we do that, whether it is an elderly shut in praying for her friends and family in solitude or a person such as Peter standing in front of thousands, so long as we do whatever the Lord asks, that is a great work. Dimensions: 0.6" x 5.4" x 8.0" Age Range: 18 years and up Paul Aurandt Jr. Best Study Bible! The elder board and staff who enabled him are equally bad. No amount of marketing spin can change the fact that if these allegations are true, and they now appear quite credible, that you were following a fraudand quite naturally, are now acting like one yourself. This is a well worn story, insert Pastor name here, insert church name here. Because your mind tells you this particular man YOU KNOW would never so you must be misjudging. I have seen it done for over 40 years now. I wonder when the above reproach inspectors will engage and be welcome with open arms; they may want to hurry, as its reached the secular media, and theyre not too focused on 1 Peter 4:8. I had the Willow Creek model thrust down on my church over 25 years ago. Hybels idea on how a church should function was to go out and ask non-believers what a church could do to get them to attend. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. Trust me, Willow Creek has nothing to do with whether I follow Jesus or not. If/when he does come forward to confess and repent of past bad behavior, he and Willow Creek elders will no longer be viewed as honest and credible among the remaining members. So, it is imperative to preserve discoverables especially as the destruction or withholding of them may mean the court can interpret that act as consciousness of guilt and therefore assume that the evidence went against the case of spoliators. That seems inappropriate. I come from a family of Russian immigrants on my fathers side. Read the books and follow the formula. I did this research a while back, so if Im remembering right, a few things I read indicated that the evidence destroyed/withheld would automatically be assumed to be against the legal case of those who destroyed/withheld it, and the jury was instructed that they were required to view the situation that way. So what does that say about what he thinks of me that he thinks he can help himself to my woman? Because my -and others- comments are moderated, there can be a lot of instantly-posted discussion between a (approval-needed) comment and when it appears. People so manipulated, though wounded, never quite understand what is causing the pain. You searched for: Author: lynne hybels bill That said, I am still very thankful for the work of Willow Creek. Ever. Not a wise thing to do. For most, even for insiders (like I used to be, 2x an elder) it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself! And many of them are, perhaps a number that would shock us all. They are pits of mass deception and subterfuge. You had a bad leader, and a bunch of elders who were unwilling to accept that, and call him on it. We would have food, beverages, snacks, etc. I was prescribed ambien, and I was one of those affected in that way behaving strangely and not remembering it the next day. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. Amnon: I WANNA TAMAR! Bill was asked about his special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent and regular basis. I suspect (although I dont know for sure) that a hug creates a higher dose of oxytocin. This is only the tip of the iceberg. In 1974, Bill Hybels married Lynne while he was still a youth pastor. And dont forget: Used their positions of power to gain access to women who had big dreams Are you saying that letter posted was well written? How many people do you need to hurt with your judgement and accusations before it is enough? Whats His true name you should know youve written a lot of books, etc and been a pastor for a very long time. Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priests servant, cutting off his right ear. I dont know why he does these things. So sad. Megachurch pastors have big institutions to feed as well: huge entities that gobble millions a year, maybe hundreds of millions. I felt something was amiss with the email story when I first heard about it. This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. The headers which wont be encrypted give info on sender and recipients and dates. Hybels appears to be trying to fade off into the sunset now. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? If at the end of this tragedy, Willow Creek gets that they will flow like a river rather than a creek. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.. One thing Im certain of, Bill Hybels would NEVER have hired men like Paul or Peter to be teaching pastors at Willow. If he was having problems with women when taking Ambien, why didnt he stop taking it and get help? (Dee), TELL YOUR DOCTOR if you have unlikely but serious side effects of Ambien including: Don calls men who abuse their female intimate partners skilled offenders. Keeping this in the forefront of out thoughts should help us from becoming disappointed when another pastor is caught. A seminary student molested a bunch of boys at my former church. What is it about these minister and their hugs. And with Invocation of GAWD subbing for the Ludes and Roofies. He didnt want to stop and I have some doubts that he took it when all this stuff happened. For the measure you use, it will be measured to you. But only a few. However it can also be decentralized and setup so that only the sender and receiver can read and no backdoor (and even they cant read if they lose the keys). My wife worked for a Fortune 500 and did grad work in the hard sciences, she taught for a Pac12 university, I have taught law in higher ed for 15 years. In my opinion this is sufficient proof to logically and reasonably conclude that Bill Hybels is guilty of clergy sexual misconduct and adultery, over an extended period of time. 1 comment about arms Little children they say do not like to be hugged by the old people so I dont do it. We know about this link. Im a pastor and a survivor of emotional/verbal abuse (in a relationship, not in a church), and I can tell you that one of the biggest reasons I stayed as long as I did was because I was convinced that I didnt deserve better, I made my own bed and had to sleep in it, and that what I got was as good as I could ever hope for. Lets do church. Having seen some of the comments by WCC supporters left at TWW, I can imagine the pressure and pain that she has had to face with her account. There is ignorance going on but you may be pointing in the wrong direction. I have going to professional society meeting for over 30 years, and hospitality suites are expected/ the norm. Never being offended. Having Church in your club title does not necessarily mean it is the Bride of Christ. Perhaps its just honest ignorance, perhaps its denial. Wailing Wall-Satanic Ritual? All of the disciples failed Jesus. By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. Will they not both fall into a pit? The first half of the book, written by Lynne Hybels, explores the early years of Willow Creek and the personal accounts behind one of this century's most . Surrounded by sycophants, who knew better. We saw the dirty laundry, the rebellious child, etc. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? The Aurora from TSO Photography on Vimeo. @ truthseeker00: @ Law Prof: Nothing more. @ Julie: WITCHES! It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. Some sources say that they dated for five years, broke up, got engaged then broke their engagement and later got back together and finally got married. The CIA is able to protect their emails as well. I do. It took celebrity to call out another celebrity because that is how that world works. Some people left, but our church has been transformed. Nancys story is not outrageous to me. Is it the lack of family having your back? He is the founding and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, one of the most attended churches in North America, with an average attendance of nearly 24,000 as of late 2018. @ jackie: And many that I know and love have yet to escape. God is always present, even in the hard and dark times. When we finally did start talking, everyone called us liars. Dee, I was wondering how you got him to do that gig. So much! There will always be outrage when the celebrity idols are touched in any way. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. Where is the debater of this age? Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. Thats all the ambien defense is too. And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. but I know you dont have that set up. Okay, now is my choice to reference David. When I got up to leave Bill stopped me at the door and hugged/held me tightly for about thirty seconds. If he is sincere about his reasons for retiring early, make a very public statement for people to knock it off and let him go away quietly. In the book, Turn the Ship Around David Marquet writes: Leadership should mean giving control rather than taking control and creating leaders rather than forging followers. Power is at the top but information is with the hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. What his wife needed was a hearttoheart and soultosoul relationship. Other tricks of such manipulators include drawing others into guilt-causing behavior, for instance using swear words casually or tossing around jokes about blow jobs. Thus, this person offering an opinion that things may have been taken wrong in Hybels case is one thing, but offering up details/takes on her say-so on action of J Ortberg putting him in less than a flattering light appears at first blush to potentially be from the wagon-circling camp which in and of itself is why many dont speak out instantly. @WillowCreekCC. These people have patience for the long con. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? I was never a member, but many family members were including on the entertainment, I mean worship, team. Tell your sister that I am standing with her in spirit and in prayer. That is common respect for other people. Ephesians 4:2. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations. Wow. After all that Nancy Ortberg said, I would hate for her husband to have behaved like that, even if it isnt as bad as what Bill Hybels has done. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. Just think what you could do with a well placed suggestion after taking Ambien. Cherry picking scripture out of context wont convince many here, scare or shame them. In 2014, Leanne Mellado let me know that a good friend of hers had shared a disturbing story. There is a reason that big names get away with so much. Got to stop that! What needs to be addressed is that this is not a matter of somehow eliminating the existence of random perverts, as if such a thing were possible. As for BIll HybelsI have not judged his salvation. Interesting how you get it, but those in high places do not. Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations Tyndale House Publishers InterVarsity Press (Chicago Tribune). I never saw a cross hanging in Willow nor heard a pastor speak out against gay marriage, women pastors or the slaughter of the Palestinians, etc . She no longer attended church (for at least a year) and she no longer trusted Jesus. I am absolutely sickened by this situation. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. Of course, you have move people beyond that into a mature relationship with the Lord and some megas neglect this. The people there sold out to it will protect it at all costs. So Im now wondering. etc. By Thriftbooks.com User, June 15, 2004 This is the greatest study bible that I have seen. So, does that mean the alleged improprieties, at least for them, are not #Metoo worthy offenses? The sheer resources at these (mostly) mens disposal. Its so clear how this happened on the womens part. When the founding big cheeses are gone (sorta) the factions start forming. Think of the reaction if this had gone to the media and by passed the elders. Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. One of the grandkids hugs on the yorkiepoo all the time. Ive worked with men for over 40 years in business. Brad Brucker wrote: What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. I can't apologize for his choices, but I do apologize for mine," she explained. Or they adapted. In April 2018, when Bill Hybels' scandal got out, John Ortberg turned on his former master . I dont know if you have any experience with megachurch staffs or not. The Holy Spirit, as Dee correctly said, does the work. Oh, absolutely. Not at all but this bit sums up Hybels Leadership acumen we used to make fun of in the 90s. How many women would even dare come forward after being called liars, drunks and suicidal? Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. We are talking about someone very well paid to teach Jesus and model that teaching. So, if we are all prone to sin, how can anyone come to the faith according to your paradigm? The existence of an impartial documented history of 2 years worth of 1150 emails between Bill and the other woman is stark corroboration. Think about it. We still do not know what that really means. Your experience fits my own. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-hybels-publishers-20180413-story.html. Hybels used Yahweh (God) for his own desires and celebrity. (Usually seeker Megas go with you are just human and made mistakes and not you are a worm so its to be expected. Or God is discipling yet another church. It isnt even that hard. Ambien or the Devil it is always Something/one Elses Fault. Or the colleague. There were some very attractive female students. When you read it, I think you might as well. I dont see how Willow Creek can move forward with the existing board. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. Thanks Clockwork Angel! Dave Dummitt 3:6, but you gloss over that because really, at the end of the day, in spite of all your preening about your great knowledge of the Koine Greek (proud, haughty, so like your master, eh?
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